podcast

Hi everybody. Thanks for joining me today on the podcast. We have a special episode for you today where I am going to interview Life Coach Jaime Schettini, who is a coach here in Brazil that I've been anxious to interview for a while because of people that I know who he has really helped. He seems to have a special talent for helping people to reframe anxiety and have greater clarity and confidence in their work, in their relationships, in their personal matters. His work is based on understanding how the mind works, helping each person to reconnect with an inner state of what he calls presence from which lightness resilience, and new possibilities emerge. He is certified by Erickson Coaching International and Escola de Coaches. He has over 10 years of experience in coaching, leadership development and team effectiveness. Before that, he earned a degree in information systems and worked for 12 years in technology companies. He's gonna talk to us today about how to reframe anxiety about the future and how to turn problems into puzzles, why over planning often fuels anxiety, and how to trust your natural insight process.
So I hope you enjoy today my interview with  Jaime

Adriana: Well, thank you so much for, for being willing to talk with us today. I've been really anxious to get to interview you because of many things that I've heard about you and many things that that, that I've heard that you teach through people that I know that you, that you have coached, and I think you have some really great insights for us about how to manage different triggers for anxiety that people have. Anxiety's about the future, right? It's really about, not knowing for sure if you have what it takes to solve the problems that are coming. Right? And so I, I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about specific stories of people that you've worked with who have, have had this issue of fear of the future, fear of problems that they don't know how to solve, and kind of how you have worked people through it.
Jaime: Yeah, so for example, a client came to mind right now. Years ago, he went to the meeting with the board directors. He would try to think, figure out everything beforehand . He's very anxious about what could happen on the meeting when it , it would be the best time for him to speak, at the beginning, at the end. You know, trying to control, manipulate a way that his image would be like, his reputation would be like strong after, after that. We don't realize that our thinking creates the feeling and actually all our reality that we live in , in the human body. And what I mean by that is that the story of having a reputation even is created by inside our mind. During a session we have time for people to realize that, oh my, look what my mind is creating. It's not true. May, it may be real for me. But it's not true. True. Absolute, absolute true. You know,
Adriana: it's a perspective, right?
Jaime: It is a perspective. Yeah. So that is, uh, this crazy thing that happens when we see thought as thought not as reality.
Adriana: So it seems like the first step in your approach is really helping people to see what it is that they're thinking. But how do you do that? Because you can't, I can't see my eyes. Yes. Right. And it's the same type of thing. I can't see the way that I'm thinking unless I can get outside of it somehow.
Jaime: Yeah. There are some ways of doing that. One, one is to really talk about thought as in the same way that we could talk about gravity. So we can't see gravity, but we feel their effects, right? So we can talk about thought. In talking about it, people start to see it more clearly. I, I like to give the example of my grandma dying. She and my mom, most important people of my life. And I was so, so connected to my grandma. And when she died, everyone in the family had a different experience. Why is that? So every mind creates different picture, judgment, judgments and interpretations about that. And that creates the experience. So this tends to turn thought into something more visible . More noticeable.
Adriana: Yeah. Mm-hmm. How do you apply that in a situation where there's a problem to be solved, a big problem that you need to solve, and you need a solution and you don't have all the answers.
Jaime: Then we have to dig deeper. 'cause what problem? That is a puzzle. The problem is, again, if my mind think that not solving it is a problem.
Adriana: Okay. So you're saying a problem is, is your perspective, you're calling it a problem. Maybe it's not a problem, maybe it's a puzzle. Is that what you're saying?
Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. That, that's what I'm saying. That's so, children love to solve puzzles. I love to, people like to work together to solve puzzles. But if you, we think that if we cannot solve it, that's the end of my life or my career, that that turns into a problem.
Adriana: Okay. So you're saying that, um, that's maybe, maybe one of the first steps is to take the fear out of it.
Jaime: To notice the fear.
Adriana: Okay. The sort of the color that you're giving the situation, the meaning that you're giving the situation that it's dangerous somehow. So, so take the danger out of it, but, but then we still have the puzzle.
Jaime: So I had another client, which her main task to be done was to plan, to do planning . The method of planning was applied for the whole company, and she was really good at planning. But life happens. The plan never, or almost never goes like we expected because we can't predict everything. I, I, I call it is a misunderstanding. If I, I'm thinking that life has to happen according to a plan, I am having a misunderstanding about how life works. So we talk about being okay of having a plan and adapting as life goes on. So, I'm right now creating like a, a program for a company, for an area of a company. Very complex, very difficult. So at the beginning, I didn't know the, the way. One day, took notes. How can I solve this? What can I do here? I couldn't find a way. It was very muddy , very confusing in my head, but that's also how our mind works. At some point we get more clear. We have an insight, we have a new thought. So in the third day, I would say I found a way that I liked. It is actually how it works. We don't know for some time. We try. We try this, try that. And suddenly we see something. That's the process. Oh. It's embracing that. It's being okay if I don't know. Okay. If I keep working or if I go to the beach, if I go take a shower sometimes it may, I, I may have an insight. I will have an insight.
Okay.
Adriana: Well, the, you're describing something that I think is, is difficult for a lot of people with anxiety to believe in, which is to trust that you will have an insight because Okay, you're, you're, you're describing a process where, okay, I don't have the answers. It's confusing, it's muddy, as you said. You're, you're, you're down in the mud puddle and you're trying to figure it all out, and it's, there's no clear answer and then all of a sudden something, some idea comes and it's, it's the way forward and that that's really what really saves you from the mud puddle. But how, how do you teach people to trust that there will be an insight? You're saying this is the way the brain works.
Jaime: Yeah. Exactly.
Adriana: But I don't know. I think for a lot of people it doesn't work that way because they haven't learned how to access it. So how can you teach people how to access that?
Jaime: So, first thing that I would try is to ask for people to remember a time, remember the last puzzle you had? Okay. How was the process? Okay, so, everyone passed through this. Many, many times. So if they remember, probably they will update about the process in their head, so, oh, yeah. Oh, in that time. And give me another example. Give me another another. And so, oh, how, it's almost always like that when I'm, and when I'm dealing with complex problems that I don't know the answer. It's always like that. I never know the answer beforehand. So then it's natural. It's not a problem anymore. So we can remember.
Adriana: So if, if this is, if this is the way that things work, it sounds like what you're saying is when we have that feeling of anxiety and we let it go and we return to that, that consciousness, that that actually would facilitate these insights coming rather than, on the other hand, if we stay in the anxiety that I don't know what the, what the consequence is on those insights. What's your experience?
Jaime: The clearer my mind is, the easiest is for me to have an insight. It's like I have space for a new thought to come. So if my mind is busy with the neuro synapsis that I know already in my head my habits of thinking, that stories, it, it, it's like we, we have less space for a new connection to happen. So. Yes. It seems that being in the present moment and being in the presence state, it tends to help us to see, to have an insight, to have a new thought, a new idea. That's why research about, they ask people, what's the time that you have most insights and, and, it's in the shower. So, yeah, I relax. I thought about a lot in the past about the problem, but then I relax. There are some ways of speaking about this, but there is this mo mode of focused mode , like paying attention hard to something very specific, and the diffused mode. Where I relaxed. So even paint, uh, Salvador Dali, the painter, the famous Thomas Edison as well, they used some kind of strategy to access the diffused mode, for example. So Salvador Dali would stare at the at, at the painting or the blank frame, and he would let himself sleep, and he put keys on his hands. Whenever he was starting to get asleep, he would, the keys would fall from his hand, and he would wake up in that state more diffuse, this diffused mode, this more light, spacey. And he, he would paint whatever came to him. So people would find all this kind of strategies to, to access it.
So
Adriana: this idea of you call the focus mode and the diffused mode. The diffused mode being kind of the consciousness mode, presence and, and the focus mode being more like the, when you're in, when you're in your head, you're rational, you're trying to solve the problems, you're trying to control things. Is that correct?
Jaime: Correct. Yes.
Adriana: So is it, do you see it as sort of a, a back and forth where you need to go back and forth between different modes, that they're both important?
Jaime: Both important. It seems that we cannot do both at the same time. If I make too much in the narrative, I'm using a different map of neurons in my head, a different circuit. If I am in the present, I'm using a different, uh, area in my brain. Both are important. What has happened to us right now as a society? I think, it's my reading about, uh, the context, is we learned the value of the analytical thinking. And we are overusing it and we haven't learning learned to access the, the, the other way, presence. That's why I think it's a matter of learning.
Adriana: So you don't really feel like we need to practice or set a quota on the amount of time that we're in the rational mode, because that's kind of our default. We're doing that too much.
Jaime: Yeah, too much.
Adriana: And so what we really need to focus on is creating habits where we can go into the diffused mode um, so that we can have more of that because we don't, we don't have enough of it in our lifestyle right now.
Jaime: Yes. Yeah.
Adriana: So, so what kinds of things help you and your clients to go into that diffused mode? What types of things do you counsel people to do?
Jaime: I would begin with meditation. A guided meditation. I like a lot the Headspace app. I think there are others as well, there is calm. That is an app as well. But if feel, if you look easily guided meditation on YouTube, you, you'll find a lot. It's an exploration. Uh, we have to be interested in the, the meditation for us to continue. And, uh, I can like this one, you can like that one. So I think it's a matter of trying some and finding, uh, the one you most like in the moment. And, and really guided meditation can help people at the beginning.
Adriana: So, and then do you try and give guidelines as far as how long people should try and do it or practice it daily?
Jaime: Yes. I, yes, I, I encourage people to start really small, like five to 10 minutes. And if they want to stay longer, they can. But otherwise, again, mind creating like judgments about how should we be doing that's not good enough and whatever. And I, and I say to people, try to meditate, don't care about results or doing it right. It's an exercise. Okay. Be gentle. Be gentle, kind with yourself. Have fun. No. Look, myself, nowadays, when I sit to meditate and I can't, I tend to, in the past, I tend to be very rigid with myself. Like critical. I don't, I should have done better, you know? And nowadays like, "oh look my mind how it is today." And that is an exercise. Anything is a successful practice. I would encourage people to think like that.
Adriana: I like that and I, I, because, because of what you said before about how everything starts with this ability to observe your thinking and observe your mind. So even if your meditation is simply to observe that your mind doesn't want to focus, you are exercising, right? It's still valuable, right?
Jaime: Yes. A lot.
Adriana: Well, it's an art and as you said, we all need to practice it, but I think that your ideas are, are really helpful for, for helping us know where to start and I really appreciate you being willing to, to think these problems through with me today.
Jaime: I hope that helps someone. A, an insight can help at any moment. So if someone is listening and can listen again and again, if one insight happens from this conversation, I would, I would love that to happen. If not, okay, let's do it again. And, and for me it was a pleasure. I really liked to, to have this kind of conversation. That helps me to see more.
Adriana: Yeah. Yeah. I, I find that too. Well, thank you so much and I would love to include a link to your, uh, website in my show notes, et cetera. If anyone wants to look you up and do coaching with you, I'll, I'll put that in. But thank you again so much for, for helping us out today. Really appreciate it.
Jaime: Thank, thank you too.

So that's it for my interview with Jaime. I hope you enjoyed it. Thanks for joining me. Stay tuned now for our kindness narrative, our weekly. Painless gratitude practice. They can help you so much to lower your overall anxiety levels generally. And remember, if you want to turn up this practice so that it is more potent, send in your own kindness narrative. Thank you to everyone who has done that so far. And remember, you can send in really as many as you want, and it doesn't have to be perfect. I can edit it on my end. You can email it to me or send it on Instagram, either in audio or a written form. So thanks and enjoy this kindness narrative.

So my kindness narrative is from a situation that happened in my childhood. As a kid, I would learn how to swim every summer, and by the following summer, I would've forgotten how to swim. And I don't know why, but this would happen pretty much every summer, until when I was about 10, my family moved to a coastal city and my brother and I decided to go out into the ocean for a swim. So my older brother, he was, he's two years older than I am, decided to sneak out. We went down to the beach. and the cool thing was that there was a sandbank that extended for about probably 200 yards or so past the shore, and it made it really easy to feel safe and get out there. We were super excited hopping over waves and diving over the bigger ones. You know, screaming out all these new bad words we had learned at school since, you know, there weren't any adults around. and it gotta the point where we eventually decided, you know, this is fun, this is great. We're kind of tired. Let's turn around and go back. And that's when things got tricky. So the water patterns had somehow kind of changed while we were out there and these deep pockets had formed in the sandbank. and the waves were starting to move in different directions as well. So we found out about these pockets, by kind of falling into them. And then I was able to kind of doggy paddle my way out. They weren't too big initially and we were just moving, you know, towards the shore. At one point I got stuck in a much bigger one. and it happened to be a spot where waves were traveling in different directions. They'd collide. Some waves, waves would come backwards away from the shore. I remember not being able to see over the foam. I was super disoriented, and there were bigger waves crashing on me, and my older brother wasn't able to pull me out. He was a stronger swimmer than I was. so we decided that, I mean, didn't really decide, he just left to go find help. and I was trying my best to tread water, but then as soon as I'd catch a breath, another wave would send me spiraling underwater. And there was, you know, nobody in sight on the beach. And I'm starting to feel like, you know, I don't know where he went off to. I'm probably gonna die. and I'm not really sure how long this went on for, but I started to feel really tired and, and just kind of hopeless. I think that was the first moment in my life where I realized, you know, that I might die in the immediate, immediate future. so eventually I heard some shouting and there's this guy who managed to find me, swam up to right where I was and, and pulled me out with a boogie board. And I was coughing up water, got back to the beach. And it was kind of cool, we found out later that this was our, our neighbor, Ademar. and he was an interesting guy 'cause he, he always came across as being very serious, kind of grumpy, almost, and kind of kept to himself. But you know, in that situation, both my brother running off to find somebody and his willingness to just drop everything he was doing and jump in the ocean to save this stranger's life, that really stuck with me. and helps me realize that, you know, sometimes external affect and, you know, apparent niceness can have very little to do with genuine care and willingness to step in when somebody really needs it. and often the people who show up are the ones you'd least expect.