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Hi, thanks for joining me today. Welcome to the podcast. We're gonna talk today about dealing with other people's emotions, which is something that can be really difficult. Relationships are all about dealing with the emotions of other people, and sometimes that can be really hard because emotions are contagious. We talked about this a couple of episodes ago. Why is it though that emotions are contagious? Well, we have mirror systems in our brains, and when somebody smiles or frowns, your brain will light up as if you were making the same expression and without realizing it, you might copy their face or their tone, and that mimicry sends signals back to your body. And can influence your heartbeat, your hormones, and your breathing, and suddenly you're feeling a little bit of what the other person is feeling. Our physiologies even sync up when we're around other people. Our heart rates and even our brain waves start to fall into rhythm. And there's an evolutionary reason for all of this. Catching each other's emotions helped our ancestors to survive. So for example, if one person in the group spotted danger and felt a lot of fear, everyone needed to be able to feel it really instantly in order to react. And on the flip side, positive emotions like joy and laughter and relief helped with group bonding if we could share these emotions. So emotions are contagious because our nervous systems are social. We're wired to resonate with each, with each other. But this isn't always helpful. I highlighted a couple of situations from an evolutionary perspective where it's helpful for us to mirror each other's emotions, but we've all had experiences where somebody in our family or somebody at work gets really angry and we tend to just react with anger without even thinking. We just mirror their emotion and then the situation becomes really unpleasant and it escalates, and maybe afterwards you wish that you had been able to just be more rational and calm and let the other person get upset without you getting upset. Or you might feel that you're surrounded by a lot of people in your social group who have a lot of fear and anxiety about the future, and you would rather not feel this fear and anxiety because you want to generate a challenge response instead of a threat response like we talked about a couple of weeks ago on the episode, when the world feels doomed, and you see why this challenge response would serve you better in your life and allow you to be able to work on the issues that are stressful in your life with more resources and enhanced performance. But being around a lot of anxious and fearful people, you tend to find yourself slipping into that anxiety. It's really difficult to differentiate and separate ourselves from this emotional contagion.

But the good news is that emotion science teaches us how emotions actually work. And we don't have to always just mirror other people's emotions. We don't have to always just react and sync up with exactly the way that they're feeling in situations when it would be advantageous for us to have a different emotion. And this is because, as we've talked about from the beginning of this podcast, emotions are actually organized by your brain's appraisal of the situation, or in other words, the story that your brain is telling about how this situation is going to affect your concerns. Those questions that your brain asks and answers, how good or bad is this? Whose fault is it? And how will it, how will it develop? The way your brain answers those questions, unconsciously, most of the time, automatically, instantly, often is what organizes the emotions that we feel.

But wait a minute, which is it then? Is it that emotions are contagious or that emotions are organized by our appraisals? They seem to be things that disagree with each other, right? If we're saying that other, other people's emotions will affect our nervous systems, whether we want them to or not, or we're saying that you can generate your own story, your own evaluation of the situation that can give you an independent emotion. How can both of these things be true? Well, it's because emotions, yes, they are organized by our appraisals, but those appraisals, those stories that our brains tell, can be manipulated or influenced in one of two different ways. They can be influenced directly. Or indirectly. So how do we influence those stories directly? Well, we use strategies that target those stories. There's an indirect way though to influence our appraisals, and that is through changing some aspect of the situation that is being appraised. So for example, I'm, let's say I'm camping with my friends. We're sitting around a campfire. We're laughing and talking and having a great time, and suddenly I look at my friend across the fire and she's got a look of horror in her face. She's looking out over past my shoulder to something behind me, and she looks absolutely terrified. My brain unconsciously and automatically starts to think, Ooh, there must be some danger out there that is making her feel terrified. And so I very quickly switch from laughter and joking to fear myself because there's new information in the situation, the situation is different than it has been before, and that's how it indirectly influenced my appraisal.

But, so we're gonna be looking today at how to be able to experience this emotional contagion, but not just be controlled by it. Not just react to other people's emotions, with the same emotion in situations where it would be beneficial for us to have emotional differentiation, to have some independence in our emotions. So I'm gonna talk to you about a way of thinking and a technique and a phrase that I use with my coaching clients that helps them to work on this. I'm gonna give you three different examples.

So a client that I'll call Emily had a recurring situation in her marriage where her husband, whenever he was getting ready to go out the door on time to get to some appointment or to work, or even more when he's going out on a trip and he's gotta make a, make a catch a plane or catch a bus or ca catch a train that he would get very stressed. He would get very nervous. He would get irritated, he would be snappy. He would be, he would say things in a way that felt really rude to her, and she was really bothered by this. And she found herself just responding to him with some of the same, just being irritated, being rude, being snappy, and she didn't want to just respond in kind. She wanted to be able to have some differentiation in this situation. She didn't wanna be commandeered by his irritation that seemed to happen over and over again every time he needed to go out the door. So I asked her to start telling the story, retelling the story first of all, by starting it in a different way. To start the story by saying, once upon a time there was an appraisal, meaning once upon a time, there was a story that was generated in the other person's brain about how the situation was gonna affect their concerns. So once upon a time, her husband's brain was telling a story about how the situation was going to affect his concerns. And I asked her to start to think like a detective and start to try and figure out what that appraisal was, what that story was that her husband told. Our appraisals are really organized by those three questions. How good or bad is this? Whose fault is it? And how is this going to develop? So I asked her to think through those questions and think, how is it that her husband's brain is answering those three questions? That will tell us what his appraisal is of the situation, the story that he's telling. So the first question, how good or bad is this? Well, his, his brain was answering that, this is bad. Whose fault is this? She wasn't sure how his brain was answering that one for sure. But the third one about how will this develop, she realized that his brain was afraid that he wouldn't be able to gather everything that he needed to be able to get out the door in time, and that maybe if he's going on a trip, for example, that he might forget something important, that he might not have everything that he would need on that trip because he needed to remember everything right now and find it all right now. And some of the things were hard to find. And so as she talked through the way that his brain answered these questions, she realized that his appraisal was, that the demands of this sit situation are too much for his resources. That his brain thought that there was too much going on here. He didn't have the resources to meet it. He didn't know how to find everything in time. It was time to get out the door already and he didn't have everything together. And so demands more than resources, we know what that produces, that is the threat response. And so his body's going to into a threat response, which produces anxiety and debilitated cognitive performance in this situation. With debilitated cognitive performance, we get less ability to control your own behavior and then you get the snappiness and all that kind of thing. So as she went through and worked like a detective trying to uncover his appraisal in this way, in hindsight, then the next time that something similar happened, she was able to, in that moment, step back and say, oh, once upon a time there was an appraisal, and start noticing what it was that her husband's appraisal was, noticing that he felt that his demands were not up to his resources. That this wasn't a personal attack on her, it was just that he was going into a threat response because he was afraid he wouldn't have everything to meet the demands of this situation. And so in thinking this way, she was able to back up a little bit and not just react with irritation, but be able to maintain her own emotional stance, which was to be calm, to help where possible, and not be snappy and, and grumpy and irritated at him.

Here's another scenario. A client who I'll call Julia. She had little kids. She lived close to her parents. She would often take her kids over to visit her parents who were elderly. And when her kids were at her parents' house, there was kind of this situation that would develop consistently almost every time they went over there, where at first the parents were trying to be really kind and welcoming and happy. And then her, her kids were a little wild. They were a little bit messy. They were a little bit noisy. And her parents would start to get anxious and irritated and upset, and sometimes one of them would snap at the kids. And this would trigger Julie to get that mama bear reaction, that she wants to, she wants to protect her kids, and she's feeling angry at her parents and she feels like attacking them. She, she wanted to find a different way to be able to deal with this. So we started retelling her story. I asked her to, to start it with, once upon a time there was an appraisal. And she started to see that her parents' brains were automatically creating some kind of a story. Let's be curious about that story. I started asking her about how their brains were answering those questions, how good or bad is this? Whose fault is it and what, how will this develop? And she realized that her parents feel like this is very bad. The answer to that first question, how good or bad is this? This is very bad . And how will this develop? Well she imagined that her parents were nervous about different things in their house. They were nervous about the, the children spilling juice on their carpet and making a, a, a permanent stain, about them breaking things as they're kind of wild and running around and things getting ruined. This would mean that they wouldn't have control over their own space, their own environment wouldn't feel safe, and they wouldn't feel good in their house because things are outta control. so in uncovering what she imagined might be their appraisal, she realized that they were seeing that the demands of the situation were too much for their resources. They didn't feel like they could control the kids and make them stop. It was a very unsettling situation for them for that reason. So in thinking back on the situation in hindsight, the next time that she went, she was able to be more aware of their appraisal behind their emotions and do different things to help assuage that. So, for example, she started to make her visits a little bit shorter. She started to bring things for her kids to do so that they could be entertained and not be so triggering for her parents. But the most important thing was that when her parents did get upset, she wasn't just mirroring their emotions and getting angry at them. And she felt that she was able to stay in that calm, removed perspective and not get upset at her parents, understand the situation and see more clearly what needed to be done to help everybody involved.

Here's one last situation. This is a client that I'll call John. His son was living with him. His son was 20 something and the son had a tendency at times to really catastrophize and get really upset when something happened that was unexpected for him. So for example, this one specific situation that John brought to me was that his son had done some wash and he couldn't find a shirt that he was sure that he had put in the wash, after the wash had been all done. This shirt was something he wanted to wear right then as he was going out, he couldn't find it. And he started to get really upset and raise his voice at his dad and say, I, I can't, I can't lose all my clothes. Every time I wash, I can't lose another piece of clothing because I only have so much, so much clothing. And his dad felt himself getting a little upset in return and getting snappy and irritated, and he didn't want to behave this way. And so as we thought through the, the situation in hindsight, he started the story by saying, once upon a time there was an appraisal. And he started to see what it was that his son's appraisal had been. Trying to discover what the answers were to these questions. How good or bad is this? Whose fault is it? And what should I do? He figured that his son answered the first question, how good or bad is this? By saying, this is really bad. Obviously. Whose fault is, it sounded like the son was maybe a little bit afraid that it might be the father's fault, that the father had maybe put the shirt somewhere, and that was why the son was confronting the father. And the third, how will this develop? The son was imagining that he was going to lose a lot of clothes that he needed and that he wouldn't be able to find things when he needed them, when he washed clothes, that he might lose something important every time. And started to feel this sense that he didn't have control over the things that he needed. He wouldn't always have the things that he needed when he needed them. And so it became apparent that the son was having a threat appraisal, seeing that the demands of this situation were not up to his resources. And so the next time something similar happened with this father and son, the father was able to just kind of step back and see his son catastrophizing and just view it as I can see his appraisal, I can see that he's worried about not having what he needs in the future. And he was able to just reply with calm and comforting responses that helped the son to see that he cared about how he felt and that he would do what he could to help him to resolve the situation. And so he didn't feel like it was personal. He didn't get, he didn't get upset in response to his son being upset. He was able to just observe and understand from a little bit of distance and have empathy instead of reacting.

So there's a little tool you can use to help you to be proactive rather than reactive to other emotions and be able to choose the emotion that you feel is the most adaptive for the moment. So it's important to understand. As we mentioned that mo emotions can be contagious because of the way that our brains and our bodies are wired to sync up with each other, but that we still have influence over the story that we tell. And taking the sentence for the beginning of your story, the opening of your story, once upon a time there was an appraisal, can help you to start to have that distance where you start to see yourself as the sky and the emotion passing through as a cloud and also with the other person. See them as the sky and their emotion passing through as their cloud, and be able to observe it and observe its characteristics and observe what it is that they actually need in this moment.

But it's really important because this is a strategy that involves a lot of brain power, you gotta imagine something that's in someone else's brain. This is something that you can't do very well if you are already in a high threat response, unless you've practiced it. So that is why I have my clients go through and think back through a past experience where they lost it, and they mirrored the other person's emotion and then they didn't want to, they wish that they hadn't, to be able to unpack it in hindsight, because that's a way of practicing how to see the other person's perspective in a moment when you're not upset and when you're calm. And if you can do this repeatedly, then this can help you in the moment even if you are a little bit upset, even if you are entering a little bit toward that threat response. If you have practiced the strategy, then it will be easier for you to access, even in those moments when you're feeling a little bit of threat. So, just like we talked about last week, practice is what makes hard strategies or effortful strategies easy, so I'd encourage you to practice that when you're not feeling upset. Go back and go through different scenarios from your own life and try and do this detective work. Say once upon a time there was an appraisal, and try and figure out what the appraisal of the other person was.

So there's a little idea for you today. Don't forget to stay tuned now for a kindness narrative, which is your easy, painless, gratitude practice that can help you broaden your awareness of beautiful things and good things in your world right now. Thanks for joining me today, and don't forget to send in your own kindness narrative. Stay tuned afterwards to hear the information about how to do that. Thanks and have a good week.

This is a written kindness narrative that was sent to me by email, so I'm going to read it to you.

My nephew is in high school. He has a deep commitment to music and has become an accomplished pianist. It has been a joy to watch this interest unfold and to get to meet the musician inside of him. I have a dear friend who is a professional pianist. She lives far away across the world, but I am very fortunate that she's part of a chamber ensemble that performs regularly near our home. So I get to see her a few times a year. These tours are always packed with rehearsals and concerts and visiting family and friends. So I treasure the moments when I can steal her away. I had been thinking for years that it would be great to connect the two of them, that she would be such an inspiration for him, but it seemed difficult to make it happen. And then this year the stars aligned. She was coming to town and he was available to come visit. I was so excited and began figuring out the details, and then of course, I realized I was overbooked and the plans started to collapse. It turned out that the only time they would be able to meet would be Saturday morning sandwiched between concert and rehearsal in towns across the state. It seemed like too much to ask. But my friend understood how much it meant to me and suggested that they drive an hour to our house after their Friday night concert and stay over so they could be available first thing in the morning. The next day my vision unfolded just as I had hoped. They discussed music over breakfast. She invited my nephew to play for her, and showered him with affirmation and insightful feedback. And then with all of her passion and intensity, she played for us a preview of the concert we would attend later that day. At the concert, my nephew was engaged. A part of him had become a part of the community of musicians there. That little spark was all because she had made space to connect. Such a simple gift and such a profound act of kindness to be fully present for others and to make them feel seen and appreciated.